Vancian Magic

[Matt James]

Let's discuss Vancian magic and the pros and cons of the system. The poll question is simple, but if you would like to delve deeper, let me know your thoughts. I'll leave my own comments below.

For those not aware, in roleplaying game systems, Vancian magic refers to the ability of a spellcaster to cast a finite amount of spells per day, based on circles of magic. The term comes from the Dying Earth series of novels written by author Jack Vance.

[Matt James]

I feel one of the more important parts of Vancian magic being introduced is that it provided a way to limit spellcasters in terms of the amount of times they could perform fantasic end state abilities, versus what melee characters could do. Because of the gnarly effects and damage that a well-placed spell could provide, I think early designers saw this as a limiting factor for spell-slingers.

I'm not yet sure I am sold on it as a great implementation though. I really need to think on it a bit (thus this poll).

[EricMPaq]

Personally, I can't give a general answer if I like vancian magic or not. There are other factors in play like how magic is integrated into the setting & game.

I like how in vancian magic, you can always cast the spell. There are no failure to cast a spell. You cast the spell, expend the resource (spell slot, mana points, etc) and the spell does it's intended effect. Once you've used up your magic resource, you have a certain down period before you can cast spells again. It is a good pacing mechanic and great for exploration games whether it is a dungeon, the wilderness or other location. You can challenge to magic resource by putting a time limit on the exploration (ex: the evil cult will sacrifice the children at midnight) and thus the magic-user can't rest when they want to to regain their magic or face the consequences of the time limit.

I also enjoy the magic systems where a magic-user must check when casting a spell. I like it when a special can be successful, failure which adds benefits/complications to the scene or successful but not as intended. I find that method adds mystery to the magic and there's a potential danger to casting the spell.

Eric

[Matt James]

I agree, Eric. It seems an amalgamation of both might make for a unique spellcasting system.

[EricMPaq]

I agree, Eric. It seems an amalgamation of both might make for a unique spellcasting system.

There are several systems out there which do an amalgation of both. In AD&D 2nd edition, the Wild Mage class used a mix of memorized spell slots and and a random modifier which could result in a strange effect (wild surge).

Eric

[Delwa]

I like Vancian Magic, but I dislike it at the same time. I largely play 3rd Edition Rules, it was what I first learned and what the majority of my friends enjoy, so I just go with the flow. But what we wind up doing is making our spell slots our "free" spells, and we can cast any other spell we know, but there's a Concentration check to "recall" the exact wording of the spell and thus cast it. Nothing novel, but we like it. None of us are "power gamers," so if the system is broken or anything like that, we don't know. I just works for the stories we play through.

[rpgjames]

I like it in the sense that it works as a limiting/structuring/balancing mechanic, which I too am sure was the original intent (and inspired by Mr. Gygax's fondness for Jack Vance's writing), plus it's what I cut my proverbial teeth on, so it's the mechanic of that first game that really lit a fire in me.

That said, when I've play spell casters, it has admittedly irked me that I had to try to guess ahead of time what I might want or need, and be limited to only those until I could rest/study/meditate/memorize again - at which point I get another shot at the guessing game.

For that reason, since hearing about it I've always liked - though never really gotten to try - the idea of a sort of "spell points" system of some kind, which would allow me to cast spells that I need, and technically "know."

I'm not a big fan though of the alternative that came about in the sorcerer though, because then I'm getting what really feels like an overly-restrictive, overly-tiny handful of spells/options.

[Sanishiver]

I like Vancian magic systems.

It felt limiting and restrictive at first to run out of spells, but as I matured as a gamer I found fun in creating spellcasters will skills and feats that let them do interesting things outside of casting spells, which led to a well-rounded, more believable character.

That, and I discovered it's fun to just say "the hell with it" and try something crazy in-game with my out-of-spells character.

The concept of spellpoints is something I haven't yet tried in D&D. I really like the idea of memorizing a set of spells from a character's spells known and then having finite points to cast those spells each day.

It seems this would promote flexibility and options (i.e. increase the fun factor) without breaking the game.

[Steelfiredragon]

whdoes it not suprise me at this point of posting that most hate it.


I ahte it becuase to me if you compared it to the spellcsting of other fantasy settngs, it makes the dnd spellcaster look weak.

I prefer spell points myself..... but still we'd have palyers crying out balance on how many spell points a wizard should get and how many points each spell should cost.....

niether method works for everyone.....