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I don't think you are wrong in thinking that rituals are under used in most games. I have seen them used only a handful of times and the bulk of those were used when I was playing a wizard. The current system does a great job of making magic feel magical but it doesn't seem to get players going enough that they stop to use rituals. I feel this way about meta magic feats in earlier editions, cool but nobody really used it. I think some sort of take on rituals like this may make them more prominent in campaigns. I don't know if it is true but it seemed that casters were more creative with their spells in earlier editions using them to tackle problems in ways that were really imaginative. Maybe 4th Edition doesn't allow for that as much or maybe we just stopped thinking in ways to get around things since the "save or die" mechanic left the game. Now players usually know what is in front of their characters and they have a reasonably good chance of killing it without PC death. Maybe that is why divination rituals don't seem to get use, players don't really care about advanced knowledge of their opponents anymore. Just some musings, great piece by the way and my group talked these points over this week.
If you use the system, please provide some feedback. In an ideal world, the same combat-casting time works across all campaigns, and then a master list could be made matching rituals with their casting times. I'd appreciate input from other groups.
I think this is an excellent system, I myself have been trying to find a way to make rituals more useful to my players - going so far as to create a vancian spell casting system for the ritulas (which is two fold - making rituals more usable and also giving the player the "retro" feel they missed)
Like a lot of folk I to lament the poor implementation of rituals, it seems that 4e as written tends to make the whole idea of magic outside of combat very poor, (who in the right mind is going to spend 10 minutes on detect secret doors when the group will just use the time to get on with searching.
I hate the whole implementation so love anything that makes rituals usable again. Thanks for this system, my one question would be, if you can cast a ritual in combat in 2 rounds why not out of it? I appreciate in a combat system we could argue that players are being creative under pressure, but what is the practical application of limiting it outside of combat? Personally I think there is an argument for saying if it takes this long in combat it takes this long out of it as well? Otherwise in combat it should have an inherent chance of failing, as per previous systems. After all if you cast a spell in previous additions the casting time was the same in or out of combat.
Other than that I'd love to see people developing more rituals, the one thing I miss is that we don't have spells for wizards and prayers for clerics, as we once did. That and the cost which can be astronomical for a low level party.
Anyway thanks again. Love all your dungeon crawl articles hoping to put them to good use soon.
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For now, giving people a reasonable way to use the now-ritual spells in combat may be all they need to get the retro feel. Personally, I don't miss Vancian magic, but I don't hate it either. If it works for your table, though, not doing it is crazy.Originally Posted by TheGreatZomboni
Good question. As this is a gaming system that doesn't necessarily prioritize logic over gaming mechanics, it's not much of a concern to me. However, even in fantasy RPGs, we have a demand for some sense of realism." In order to reconcile these two concerns (i.e., "fantasy realism" v. "just make it possible"), I'd suggest some sort of a consequence of trying to cast it that fast. I stand by my concern for the possibility of complete failure, so I'd rather it be something short of complete failure. Instead, how about a -10 penalty to the relevant skill roll? For rituals without a skill roll, the penalty would be a 20% reduction in its effectiveness. Let's see how that would play out in my sample encounter.
1. For Passwall, there's no skill roll, so we look to the numbers. Normally, the passage created is 20% of your Arcana check (i.e., Arcana check divided by 5). Instead, it becomes 80% * 20% of your check, which is 16%. Make sure you have a calculator available. If it turns out that the passageway isn't deep enough, that's a real concern for the party.
2. For Planar Portal, the DC for a 3-round portal is 20. A 6th level arcanist with a starting Intelligence of 20 should have a trained Arcana score of at least +13 with a higher score possible. Assuming another +2, at a -10 penalty, getting a 3-round portal would be tough but possible (roll of 15 or better). The PCs would probably have to assume they couldn't be more than their speed in squares from where the portal would be, as they'd need to be able to shift from adjacent foes, then haul ass to the portal. Of course, the PCs don't know what types of devils are coming, so maybe a shift (or any movement) wouldn't be available.
Decisions, decisions ...
I crafted this encounter without this modification in mind. It would be a much more reasonable encounter if the PCs (and enemies) were a couple levels higher or if your particular preference was to use a -5/10% penalty. In fact, you could select your -X/Y% number to vary from encounter to encounter based on environmental effects, the condition of the scroll (assuming it's a single-cast scroll), etc.
I am trying something out to allow for rituals and martial practices on the fly by using an action point and 25% extra cost. I hope this will get my players using two mechanics in the game that never get used.
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