Article: Game Design: Foundational Layers for 4e

[BrianLiberge]

My article and slight response on themes went up today, http://stuffershack.com/themes-taking-on-new-roles/. Check out the end where I talk about 4e modern, one of the main reasons I've been thinking about expanding on themes.

[dumas_drift]

I feel that themes are in fact a way to create a lot of diversity with very little overhead. You touched on several very good uses for them, from multiclassing, multi-racing (half-X), transformational themes (vampire, werewolf, lich, etc), or even organizational alliances and professions (much like Darksun). It would also work as a good foundation for everything from the Spellplague "pseudo class" to Eberron's Dragonmarks. This is a very exciting design space, and a clear case of allowing for broader characters rather than characters with higher numbers. (which brings me to my next point)

They could also allow for a more elegant solution to the "math feats" going forward in this edition. If every character has a theme, you could make EVERY theme give the math feats as part of it's design, thereby ending the need to use the design space of feats for that type of correction. Going forward into the next edition, I advocate fixing the math all together rather than patching it. (and eliminating the pluses on weapons, armor, and neck items) But for this edition, a patch is the best option.

[Matt James]

Yep, that's exactly what I said here and elsewhere. The Math could have been integrated into these themes/templates rather than a feat tax.

[Gryphonclaw]

Matt,
I like the way character classess are set up in essentials. I think of them more as a focused build rather than the generic ones offered in what I call standard 4e. A mage is still a wizard for instance but concentrates on pyromancy or enchantment for example. Since they work seemlessly with the rest of the 4e books I see no problem. However, I would love to see the theme ideas you got. When I first saw them in the Dark Sun campaign book I thought it was a great idea to add depth to the character in an easy way. I look forward to what you have to show. Also, I didn't care for the vampire being turned into a class. A vampire is an undead creature not a prfoession. Your profession is fighter not vampire. Aside from this notion I never liked the way monsters were handled as pcs in Savage Species. If you can work up a vampire template I'd love to see that. Talk to you soon.

[Matt James]

Gryphonclaw,

I may very well do that. Thanks for the suggestion and the comments. Also, welcome to my humble site. I hope you stick around and contribute.

[Gryphonclaw]

Gryphonclaw,

I may very well do that. Thanks for the suggestion and the comments. Also, welcome to my humble site. I hope you stick around and contribute.

Thanks for the welcome Matt. I look forward to helping out!

[joela]

There is a big thread about this article over on EN World -> http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-disc...direction.html

There's also a growing discussion over at Paizo.

[Matt James]

I've put up a quick little example. Not exactly what I would like to see in the end, but it is an evolving process.

http://www.loremaster.org/content.ph...nD-The-Cobbler

[fc1234]

I tend to agree. The RPG gaming community is a fickle bunch and with the advent of the Internet, it seems it is way easier to be disgruntled. Either way, I still tend to gravitate towards games I enjoy. 4e has been quite enjoyable for several years now.

The Internet makes it easier to express disgruntlement. Way back when 2nd edition came out and I was disgruntled we showed it with our wallets. We just refused to buy any of that crap. Same as with 4th edition which is also a crock.